Dorreen Yellow Bird
Q. Today’s Herald carries a column by you that recently appeared on the Web site, www.indianz.com (“Let go the chains of victimhood,” Page D3).
The column opens the door for our conversation today about Indians and “victimhood.” But first, we need to know a little about you.
A. I was born at home in
When I got out of the Army, I entered the private sector with General Dynamics Corp. for a few years. Then, I went back into Indian affairs.
In 1967, I went to work for the mayor’s commission on community relations in
We first met in 1969 to form the American Indian Press Association. I became director of the association. In 1972, I was elected director of the National Congress of American Indians. That was in the days when they elected their directors at the annual convention. I was there through 1978. I left the National Congress and started my own company, the Chuck Trimble Co.
Q. What you mean by victimhood?
A. Victimhood is just a constant state of recalling, however true it might be, that you are a victim.
In my column, I use the example of Matthew Spetter, the man who went through the
We tend not to want to do that. I think that reluctance is fed by people who constantly relive the tragic history.
A good example is Tim Giago, columnist and former owner of the Lakota Times, whom I’ve known since childhood. After awhile, this kind of talk gets to be a litany or mantra, so whites expect it when we speak. They say, “Tell us about those awful days in boarding school; tell us how they beat you up.”
So, we’re feeding people what they want to hear or what we think they want to hear in order for us to get our way: to elicit pity or push guilt.
That’s what I found myself doing when I testified on behalf of the National Congress of American Indians before Congress. I knew the litany by heart: highest infant mortality rate, lowest life expectancy, highest unemployment, lowest per capita income and on and on.
At first, I thought it was pretty effective. Then, I got to thinking, “What are we asking these legislators to do in those hearings?” We constantly live with it, and after awhile, it wears on us and ultimately it wears on our children.
Over the past five years, I worked at the
If it’s history, it really needs to be taught. But we ourselves shouldn’t necessarily buy into it.
The time is coming when we will need to face the issue of why we are not progressing. There are a lot of people who are progressing, but why are we insisting that we are not progressing by constantly reliving and reviewing the past history?
Q. You bring to mind Bill Cosby’s recent speeches, in which he scolds blacks for buying into victimhood. Have you heard those speeches?
A. Yes. And he called me after I wrote my column because he liked what I was saying. I told him that I used some of the things from his speech in the column. Cosby said he’s worked in several large Indian casinos.
Q. That’s true. I met Cosby at the Dakota Magic casino in
A. He said he was concerned about a number of things, but first of all the condition of Indian people, even those well-dressed and well-paid members of the casinos. They let their health go with diabetes, obesity and so on. He said that really concerned him because he thought that was a sign of giving up on something — they don’t care for themselves, and they should.
Q. Do you think he was pointing out similarities between American Indians and blacks?
A. There are big differences, but the case he was making and what I’m trying to say is that there also are similarities. He said we should keep in touch, and we need to keep working together.
Q. What kind of responses have you received on your column?
A. It has been good, and I’ve gotten some profound e-mails. The first questions that one man asked was, “What is your blood quantum?”
But it has been favorable, generally — in fact, totally, except for that one question. There were other interesting e-mails where I didn’t know exactly where the writer stood, but at least they didn’t cuss at me, so it wasn’t so bad.
Q. When I read your column, I wondered, “Has he lived on a reservation, and does he fully understand what he’s talking about?”
Most Indian people live with what they were born with, and we carry that historic baggage, so to speak. And we do drag it out when we need to. So when does remembering the past become victimhood?
A. We shouldn’t think of our history as “baggage.” We should think of it as “experience.” I think it is very important to keep it because we have to understand our history; but we should treat it as history, not a political tool.
It’s life experience if you’ve faced discrimination on the reservation or certainly in the border towns around the reservations.
I have. I can pass as a Mexican, Italian or a white person, but the sad thing is I watched my mother, who is very Indian, take some really rude stuff. When I was little, that really hurt. That was worse than getting it myself. Those are things you remember.
I guess I should say we can’t let the world forget it (our history), but we also can’t let it be baggage to us — to weigh us down and give us sense of victimhood.
It is a terrible thing to think we are out here at the behest of someone else. We are no longer in our homeland. I go back to Pine Ridge often, and I have relatives who sit there and say, “I’m stuck here. This is someone else’s. This is not mine.”
We claim sovereignty, and that presumes superiority. We do have superiority, and you can’t drag yourself down to inferiority and have sovereignty, too.
Q. This is a new door you’ve opened in Indian country. I hope it will bring some discussions.
A. I was hoping that people would think about this as a new movement. I wasn’t looking for people to cheer me on. I was looking for responses from people who had different thoughts on the subject, even if those thoughts turned out to be pretty tough. And I hope I get more.
Q. Anything else?
A. It causing some stir and some argument, and that’s good. But I believe what I wrote in the column. We need to have these kinds of talks within our circles and communities. The answer is with us and on the reservations.