June 22, 2006
Oral Questions - Native Land Dispute
Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): A question to the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Today is day 115 in the crisis in Caledonia. Dalton McGuinty's weak and indecisive leadership has led to a major crisis of public confidence in our front-line Ontario Provincial Police officers. Yesterday's Toronto Star said, "There were physical assaults taking place in front of you and you can't do anything about it. The OPP is a joke in terms of Caledonia. It has tarnished our name." That's from a front-line OPP officer.
Yesterday, Premier McGuinty simply dismissed this seemingly as a fabrication. Surely, Minister, the one responsible for the Ontario Provincial Police is going to stand up in the House today and tell us you're going to look into this matter of who is giving direction to the Ontario Provincial Police and move forward with the inquiry. Stand up for our Ontario Provincial Police officers.
Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): For the last few weeks, I've been listening to the opposition talk about Caledonia. The only thing they have to bring to the table is the fact that someone in their organization can read the newspapers, because, I'll tell you, all of the information you get is in the newspapers and most of it is not totally correct.
But I do want to quote from one particular newspaper that you might find interesting, and that is Karl Walsh, president of the Ontario Provincial Police Association: "All the same, Walsh says he appreciated the government's hands-off approach to policing in Caledonia and says the opposition ... should stop playing politics with the standoff."
So here we have a situation, and the question the member asks is, "Who is directing the OPP?" The answer is, nobody is directing them. The OPP are independent. They make their decisions and they act --
The Speaker: Thank you, Minister. Supplementary?
Mr. Hudak: I wonder what the minister's been doing. He accuses us of playing politics. I don't know if you're playing golf, cribbage or shuffleboard, but what you're not doing, Minister, is standing up for Ontario Provincial Police and front-line officers in the Caledonia area or across the province of Ontario.
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Let me remind you what's happening under your watch. As minister, you have condoned something called a no-go zone for Ontario Provincial Police. You didn't say a word when Ontario Provincial Police officers were taken out of their car, their windows smashed -- they were arrested and humiliated. And now we're seeing votes of confidence against the OPP commissioner and mockery of the OPP front-line officers because of Dalton McGuinty's weak leadership.
Minister, if you're not going to stand up for OPP officers, maybe you should consider stepping down and letting somebody else stand up for the OPP, because you certainly are not.
Hon. Mr. Kwinter: I find it interesting that the member would make those statements. I challenge him to bring forward one senior officer in the OPP, the commissioner of the OPP or anyone else who will stand up and go on the record and be critical of the way we have dealt with this situation as far as the OPP are concerned. I challenge you to do that. Come up with one name. Don't refer to unsubstantiated reports. Give me a name.
Mr. Hudak: Talk about gutless leadership. You wonder what this minister -- why aren't you talking to the front-line OPP officers? If I were the minister and I saw that article in the Star yesterday, I'd be on the move and I'd be looking into it right away.
Minister, with all due respect, you're a veteran of the Ontario Legislature, and your voice should carry weight at the cabinet table. You should be standing up and getting onside with Ontario's front-line provincial police officers. You're more interested in bowing down before the leader than doing your job as minister.
Minister, I have no choice. I have no choice because of your lack of leadership and your lack of support for Ontario Provincial Police officers: Minster, it's time for you to step down and let someone else fight for our Ontario provincial police officers.
Hon. Mr. Kwinter: I don't want to give the member a history lesson, but the history of this institution is loaded with Solicitors General who spoke to police about a matter and had to resign. You should know that. You should know that that has happened. To suggest that I should be directing the OPP, that I should be talking to OPP officers about this issue, is totally, totally irresponsible on your part and indicates that you have no idea what you're talking about.
The Speaker: New question.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Order. I can wait. The member for Hamilton East.
Oral Questions - Native Land Dispute
Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): Back to the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services: Let me read you some of the headlines in today's newspapers. Brantford: "There's No Law in Caledonia." London Free Press: "Caving In at Caledonia; Willing to Buy Peace At Any Price, the Province Gives Into Thugs and Sets a Dangerous Precedent." Stratford: "Residents Demand Law and Order." North Bay: "Caledonia Residents Demand Law and Order."
Clearly, Minister, under your watch, the rule of law has been suspended. The Toronto Star reports, and I gave you this quote, "There were physical assaults taking place in front of you and you couldn't do anything about it. The OPP is a joke in terms of Caledonia. It has tarnished our name," said a front-line OPP officer.
Minister, is the reason you're not acting because you think that the author, Jessica Leeder, and the Toronto Star fabricated the story? Is that why you're not acting?
Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): The reason I'm not acting is because I have a responsibility not to interfere with the operation of the OPP. It's too bad your seatmate isn't beside you, because he was quoted just recently when he was interviewed about an event that is taking place somewhere else in the province, and he said, "The Solicitor General should not interfere with policing in Ontario." That is a basic policy that every single Solicitor General not only does honour, but has to. Otherwise, they have no choice but to resign.
Mr. Hudak: This assembly has had weeks and weeks -- in fact, 115 days -- of excuses from Premier McGuinty; excuses from the Minister of Correctional Services. The reason you're not acting is because you want to remain wilfully deaf and blind to the crisis in Caledonia and the suspension of the rule of law.
The minister said earlier that if I gave him the name of a senior police officer who says there's something going on down there, he would then investigate. "Due to political pressures and optics involved with this, the OPP seems to be bending their own rules while sacrificing officer safety." He cites deviations from usual practices, such as telling the tactical team not to wear riot gear on the site lest they provoke a native backlash. That's from Karl Walsh, the president of the Ontario Province Police Association. Surely that fits your definition of an important police officer. Minister, hearing this, surely you'll look into the matter.
Hon. Mr. Kwinter: The member either doesn't listen or doesn't want to listen. I quoted --
Interjection.
Hon. Mr. Kwinter: Okay, well, let me tell you what he also said. You had your chance to speak. You had your chance --
Interjection.
Hon. Mr. Kwinter: I think it's important to understand -- this is what one of his colleagues said about him. He said, "We have a minister who's incapable, incompetent, in handling it, and that is Minister Hudak." Let me tell you this and let me read this to you. This is your own colleague who said that about you. Let me read this quote one more time. You quoted Karl Walsh, and Karl Walsh said, "... he appreciates the government's hands-off approach to policing in Caledonia and says the opposition should stop playing politics with the standoff." That's Karl Walsh. He said that. He said you're playing politics and that he --
The Speaker: Thank you.